Ezekiel RodofiliIf you don’t know who Nubya Garcia is, here’s some information to start you off: Is an artist working with the medium of music.
Soon Nubya Garcia‘s album, Odyssey, will see release. I was afforded the great opportunity to talk with her about the album.
Odyssey is available here and here.
Upcoming tour dates are viewable here.
Article photo by Danika Lawrence.
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Ez: I want to start off by saying I fucking love Source.
Nubya: Thank you.
Ez: I don’t listen to it anywhere near as much as I want to, but I’ve been listening to it for a good few years, and I think it’s one of the best albums to come out in the last five, ten years by far.
Nubya: Aww, thank you so much. That’s really lovely of you to say. I’m glad it resonates with you.
Ez: But obviously we’re not here to talk about that. We’re here to talk about Odyssey.
It’s been roughly four years since Source came out. Odyssey as a title naturally has connotations of a journey of discovery. Would it be fair to say that the title is accurate in this case?
Nubya: Yeah, definitely. That’s why it ended up being called Odyssey *laughs*
I think it’s been a really interesting few years, and landing on that name felt like it was the only option. The perfect fit for what I intended the music to encapsulate, which was to have a cinematic edge, a kind of epic journeying quality to it, and also definitely to depict my journey, but also everything that everyone’s been going through in terms of living after a pandemic.
I think that was definitely a subconscious thing. I didn’t set out to write a record about life after a pandemic, but I think – on reflection – it would be incorrect if I didn’t involve that as a subconscious thought of mine, I think.
Ez: Is it fair to say then that your music is predominantly experiential?
Nubya: Yeah, pretty much. I would say that, definitely.
Ez: With the few songs that you have release so far from the album, there are some orchestral elements, as well as – at least what I feel – a throughway from what you’ve done before, in that you’re taking a lot of elements of different genres and styles and putting them within a jazz context. In that regard, do these three songs that you’ve released thus far, sort of give a good idea of the album?
Nubya: There’s so much more.
It’s hard when you choose singles to get released. There’s never enough, do you know what I mean? It’s suggested to release three or four, but if I had my way I probably wouldn’t even do singles, but that’s the world we live in now.
I say that because I believe in the introduction of things slowly, but I also believe in absorbing something the way that it was intended to be listened to.
So those three songs that are released; they’re part of the album. They’re a snapshot of a few different sections of it, but not all the sections. And also, they aren’t necessarily what people assume or box in as jazz. The last single is not a jazz song at all, ever. It’s an R’n’B song, so it’s funny that people still see you as…
You could deliver anything, make anything and because of your instrument or because of what they know you as, you’re always gonna kind of be the genre that they want you to be. I think the orchestral elements of this album push it away from things that I’ve done before. I wouldn’t say in any way that I’m a classical musician, but that is definitely where I started my musical journey… decades ago *laughs*
But yeah; I think for me, I’m interested in making music. I’m not really interested in deciding where people place that music. I think that’s gonna be different for everyone, and I think that’s the beauty of art being subjective and art being in the ears of the listener, as it were.
I think these singles – as you’ll hear when the rest gets released – they’re important parts of the record, but they definitely don’t show you all of it.
Ez: I guess the other issue with it is that if you’re working with variability it can give the wrong impression, even if the pre-released songs are in and of themselves variable from each other.
Nubya: Yeah. I mean it’s hard, isn’t it. The album is like a multiverse of music, and I love that about it. That becomes difficult for people to put into a certain area, which is what we do now. But I’m just excited for people to hear the rest of the music, and to find the corners, the areas of the album that really speak to them the most, whether that’s all of it or some of it. We all have albums where “That’s my tune”, or “I love the beginning, the middle or the end of the whole thing”. You never know what’s gonna happen because everybody’s different.
Ez: It sounds like the record is more variable than Source. How did you find the process of taking all these disparate elements and putting them together in a cohesive whole?
Nubya: Quite organic, and quite natural to me *laughs* is the easiest way of describing it. It didn’t feel like I was putting together completely different sides of something. As I said before, music is music to me, and I’m grateful that I’ve been exposed to so many different things, so I don’t feel like I have to hop between things. My playlists are very varied. Source was very varied. This album’s even more varied.
I think that it comes naturally to me, so I don’t know the best way to describe it because it feels like organic motion, because that’s the way I engage with music in itself, and always have.
It felt… yeah. Organic is the best word I could use. Very natural and exciting as well, I have to say.
Ez: So it was all fairly easy. Perhaps not straightforward, but just very smooth kind of process.
Nubya: Yeah. I think “smooth” is a good word to use. I wouldn’t use the word “ease” or “difficulty”, because I don’t think it says everything that it needs to say. I think organic is the best way I can describe my feelings.
It didn’t feel cumbersome. It didn’t feel like I was climbing an impossible hill of “what are we doing?”. I had a vision and I felt quite… I felt very safe in getting to it, and it wasn’t crazy.
Ez: You mentioned motion. Obviously there’s the motion of sound in the way that it progress in the process of creating it and performing it, but do you also feel that you were capturing the motion of time at the same time?
Nubya: Um, I don’t think I set out to do that, but that’s a really interesting deduction. I quite like that. I think music in itself does that, even if you’re not setting out to do that, because of the time it takes to make something, the time you’ve lived through in terms of since your last thing was written or released or whatever, and I think that’s just a very natural byproduct of making and creating.
Ez: There’s also the way that music kind of travels in two different ways through time in that once you’ve created a record you’ve got a document, and people listen to that as a document frozen in time whilst still going forward. There’s also the live performance side of it in which it’s being experienced as a recreation in the present.
Nubya: Yeah. I completely agree. I definitely… one thing I always go back to is that albums and EPs and any music releases that are just a snapshot of you in that time, and by the time it’s released you’re already somewhere else, do you know what I mean? This was written and recorded last year. We’re in 2024 now *laughs* so it’s nearly a whole year later, and that’s a snapshot of where we were; where the music was, and it will continue to expand and live on, especially because we do tours.
Maybe it’d be different if we weren’t touring it or if it was heavily produced, and it lived in that space, but it’s live music at the heart and soul of it, so it has the capacity to keep changing and keep growing and keep morphing into whatever it becomes, and I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about my music practise, or something that I find really beautiful in the way that I play and practise music.
Ez: So talking a bit more about Odyssey itself… I’m ignorant in the way you approach recording and creating music. Do you write a lot of it down, or does it come from jamming?
Nubya: I wrote everything down. I scored everything pre-rehearsal, pre-session, because that’s the way that I work. And also, I know that living in London, everyone’s time is quite scarce, so I wanna maximise everything that we’re gonna be able to do in the recording session or the rehearsal for said session, so everything was scored up and ready and printed and set to go. That’s something that I’ve always done.
This was definitely the session that… I did it with more time before the session than I usually do, which was great because it allowed me to have time to do some tweaks here and there, or make a really solid plan so that we could go in there and actually be efficient. I think the efficiency of these sessions and the access to the equipment that we had, and people and engineers and amazing studio [meant] we could really hone in on creating and getting it to where it needed to be, or where I wanted it to be.
We had days and days in the studio; more than we’ve ever had before, and I loved it. I loved having the extra time. It meant we could really get in there, and record more, so therefore have a greater amount of things to choose from and be really like “Oh okay, we did this in this take. Let’s go back again and kind of build upon that” and still do full takes. We always record full takes in that kind of situation, and I really enjoyed it.
It felt so good. Obviously people who prepare months out are used to this, but I think when you’re a touring musician and you’re writing on the road, having time is a luxury, and so to be able to be home and come back from tour, finish up the writing, get everything scored up which in itself is a huge job; especially when you’re working with twelve string players alongside your band, time is of the essence.
I can hear the outcome; I can hear that I wasn’t trying to do a rearrangement for every single tune, but because we had a really strong foundation I could explore and be like “Oh okay, I know it says this in the score, and because it says this in the score just add this one thing. Oh I didn’t like that. Okay go back to how it was”, whereas if you’re all doing this and you don’t have a map? It takes a lot longer, and I think that’s absolutely fine if you want that, but I don’t *laughs* so by the time we get to the studio I know they’re ready. I’m not going in there trying to write music.
I think if I had my own studio, then that would maybe become something that I would start exploring, but I don’t wanna do that when I’m paying for a studio. I think that is a surefire way to lose some very big money *laughs*
Ez: Obviously with that being said, the people that you play with, you have a fair bit of trust and confidence in them to – for lack of a better phrase – deliver the goods.
Nubya: 100%. We’ve known each other for over a decade. I know that everyone can read music. I know everyone is receptive to what I’m gonna say to them. Everyone can take direction; they’re open. They are creative; they are excellent musicians. So yeah: 100%.
I trust my band wholeheartedly, and then anyone that I invited into the sessions [that] I didn’t know, it was wonderful. It was an incredible experience working with an orchestra that I’ve followed for ages – their work – and I wanted to work with them for years and years, so to see that come to fruition was a really big deal for me, and to work with featured artists who I’ve been following for a long time, who I admire their work; it was a real coming together of many many things that had been in motion in my brain for a long time, and that’s part of the beautiful vision of being a creative: seeing what you want come into play at the right time in your journey.
Ez: You mentioned earlier that you recorded Odyssey about a year ago.
Nubya: Yeah, September last year, and October.
Ez: Do you feel the same way about the album as you did once it was done?
Nubya: Yeah, absolutely! I think I even feel more uplifted now that I can look and see the journey from a different perspective. I was really proud to know that I’d given my all and that I’d pushed my creativity and vision to the end points of my capability right now. That in itself is one of the most fulfilling things about being a musician and a creative, and also challenging yourself to be in completely different areas.
I really am proud of the record. I love it. I think it shows me – and I’ll continue to hold onto this forever – what can be done outside of your comfort zone, and also it’s possible… it’s always possible; you may see it as a kind of mountain at the beginning, and then you get stuck into it, and then your excitement and your adrenaline takes over and your creative vision…
I wasn’t thinking about it as an album. I was writing music and playing music with people that I really hold dear to me, and collaborated with people that I have imagined collaborating with, so I’m exceedingly proud of this album and I feel even better about it a year out.
Ez: And when it does get released, obviously there is still an element of it still being yours seeing as you’re the one who created it, of course, but do you feel that once it gets disseminated by the public, it’s no longer yours?
Nubya: Don’t use that word! “Disseminate”; We’re not in a surgery. Bloody hell *laughs*.
Do you know what? I think it’s beautiful, and having been in this industry for a long time now, I know that it’s none of my business unless I sit down and ask you and we have a conversation about it.
It’s none of my business to sit and trawl through the Internet. I would much rather have a conversation in person if we’re gonna ever talk about the music ’cause that’s interesting to me. Like, what resonated to you? What spoke to you? Why did you like this? Why did you like that? From an analytical point of view, I quite enjoy that and I haven’t really done that as much – obviously because of the pandemic – with Source.
It’s wonderful, talking to people after the shows and seeing where they heard it for the first time. Where does it accompany you in your life? I don’t feel any sort of way [or] worry about that because I’m proud of it. If I felt like “Oh my God, I could’ve done better”, then maybe I would feel differently. I think… yeah. I’m fine with it, actually, which is surprising *laughs* but it’s the truth.
Ez: Personally, on one hand I believe in death of the author, but at the same time I believe in authorial intent because just because a work becomes publicly available, doesn’t mean that the person or the people who worked on it aren’t experiencing it anymore.
It’s always interesting to see how people think about that.
Nubya: I think it’s such an interesting concept, especially in the world that we live in today, where everyone can voice their opinion immediately in a variety of places, but I think the important thing to remember is it’s really, really fucking hard to put a record together, an album together, a book together, an exhibition together. It’s incredibly difficult to create something, and we all – creatives or otherwise – if it’s your work, I think that we need to keep a hold of that, and keep a hold of compassion and respect. You can give constructive criticism or feedback, or say what you thought, but I think there are so many different ways that you can do it. Would you say what you write to someone’s face who made it? And if you would, then cool. We can have a discussion. If I didn’t ask for that feedback that’s a different story, but you do open yourself up to all of that when it goes live, and that’s just part of life, I think.
Whatever keeps you safe in your mind *laughs* is what you need to do, whether it’s read it, not read it, engage with it, not engage with it. I have no idea what the future holds, but I’m really excited right now for people to get into it, and… yeah. That’s how I feel today *laughs*
Ez: You’re coming to Australia to perform.
Nubya: I am.
Ez: At the Oxford Art Factory if I remember correctly.
Nubya: I believe so. Yeah. I’m excited. It’s been ages.
Ez: Oh, so you have toured Australia before?
Nubya: I have, yeah *laughs* a while ago. We would’ve been back [sooner] if there hadn’t been a pandemic and stuff, but we didn’t get to bring Source there at all. I’m super excited to just reconnect with people over there, friends that I made when I was there, check out the music… I think it’s gonna be a really wonderful trip, and if I make it through the flight *laughs* then I’ll be fine.
But yeah; always love coming to Australia, and I’m excited to just get into it and do some shows there.
Ez: In regards to performing live then, especially in regards to these new songs, do you see them transforming and changing?
Nubya: Yeah. The music always does. I want it to continue living. Music is alive – to me – and that’s the environment that I’ve grown up in, which is to continue pushing and continue working the music, rearranging it. Yes, people wanna hear it as it was. It doesn’t mean you can’t change it up a little bit, as the music is in the world for even longer.
If I played some of my first ever written tunes the same way only, I don’t think it’d be the experience that I want within music, whereas having a range of different ways, having ways to pour into the music and the audience; it’s about reading the room. What are people responding to? What are you moving to? What is transporting you? That’s what I wanna lean into a bit more whenever I’m on stage, and that doesn’t necessarily equate with high energy music, and the opposite; it just means “Okay, where can we take this music today?”.
Ez: Something I have actually noticed about Source and some of the songs released so far from Odyssey, a lot of your playing has a very strong passion behind it, but it seems – energy-wise – malleable, which is obviously a good position to be in because if you need to dial it down for whatever reason when performing it live it’s a lot easier than if everything’s just kind of “at the front”, you know?
Nubya: Yeah, 100%. I feel – for me – I want range. I want to be able to play a ballad. I want to be able to play a fast tempo, burning energy tune. That’s all music to me and everything in between, and that’s what feels good. That’s the music I’ve grown up on. Jazz is a very far and wide-reaching idiom, so I have that in my library of music, in my head and my heart, so everything is possible, if that makes sense in terms of where we can go. I don’t believe in placing limits on myself.
Ez: Well, I have one last question. Obviously, cause you’re also a younger millennial is my understanding, or you’re Gen Z.
Nubya: I am not Gen whatever-it-is-now *laughs* I’ll take it, yeah. A millennial; I guess I am.
Ez: We’re both of the same generation, so we’ve come from a generation where we’ve seen the fruits of fights for more civil rights and more equality and representation. Do you feel though, however, that being female in what is a predominantly male-presenting scene, you’ve had to work a lot harder, or that you’ve had to specifically be representative, or do you feel that those are things you’ve not had to worry about?
Nubya: I mean I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s not gonna be something that I haven’t worried about *laughs* That’s what it is to be a woman in this world, and a black woman at that. Whenever I answer this question I also say I would really love it, as part of the change, for people to start asking men as well, this question, because I don’t think they do, and then it falls on the backs of women to kind of carry the change. Yeah, it’s a really male-dominated music. What can we do?
I really want men to also take up that responsibility of change.
To answer in short: yeah, it’s difficult *laughs* Of course it is when you walk into rooms and don’t see yourself represented. I also will say though, on a positive note, when I joined Tomorrow’s Warriors – when I was around sixteen, seventeen – that was the first place I felt truly represented. There were lots of young women there and young black women there as well, so I didn’t feel as isolated or separate to the group, and I think that made a huge difference in my growth as a young musician, and also just as a young human.
It built me a community that transformed my experience, so I think that was very key in helping me to feel like not a token, or not having to feel like I was alone in my issues of whatever they were. But yeah; outside of women I have a really strong community of people that support me, whatever gender they are. That’s been really life-changing and really welcome, and it hasn’t gone without notice, do you know what I mean?