Ezekiel RodofiliHana Macklin is a Brisbane-based musical artist who weaves a number of sounds and musical forms together to create and express, leading to an expressive, eclectic and cohesive whole. She’ll be playing new music this coming weekend as part of the Art As Catharsis fifteen-year anniversary show in Brisbane.
I had the pleasure of being able to ask Hana about her music and the upcoming show.
Photo taken by quartz.pistol.
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Ez: Your most recent release is Life Automatic, which from I can see, you describe as “Re-mastered versions of unreleased songs recorded between 2010-2021 across grassroots studios in Magan-djin.” What was the impetus for remastering songs instead of revisitng and reworking them?
Hana: I thought that the recordings were all good, and I wanted to honour all the different musicians that played on those tracks ’cause it’s different musos on everyone. And some really nice memories attached to them. They’re either songs that never made it to either a bigger release that was getting put together or standalone things that got made. I grabbed them all when I was looking through my hard drive, sat with them was like “The vibes kind of work”. They kind of work together. It was sort me just wanting to make them present and make them available, and… yeah! That was that.
Ez: Do you think that putting these songs together changes the narrative that they would have told of if they were released when they were recorded?
Hana: I don’t really think about that too much, to be honest. I think they’re good works, and that is that, really.
Ez: Do you think that makes it a good bite-sized way to get into your work?
Hana: Yeah! For sure. I suppose it’s pretty different, sonically and stylistically to Mu which is an LP. If someone was, like yourself, just coming in now and listened to Life Automatic first, then went to Mu, they would be like “Oh wow, she was so upbeat and now she’s so depressed” *laughs* which, you know, there’s an element of truth in that. It swings in roundabouts and life deals you all kinds of things.
Ez: When I was listening to Life Automatic, something that stuck out to me was a sort of like – and I’m probably getting this wrong – some anxieties but acknowledging them and walking forward still, if that makes sense.
Hana: In that track, particularly?
Ez: Yes, but also bits and pieces across the other three songs.
Hana: Yeah. Questioning the self, questioning the world, the environment, insecurities. I like that they are younger me ’cause I enjoy hearing that naïveté and the insecurity and anxiety. It’s kind of interesting to look back and be like “Man, I used to ask so many questions in my songs”. And who am I asking them to? I don’t know, but I was asking them ’cause they were obviously playing on my mind. I had a lot of wonder and a lot of doubt, I suppose.
Ez: These songs in particular aren’t… they’re not anxiety songs, to me. There’s an element of wondering about it, but not being held back by it.
Hana: For me, a common thread that always seems to come up is relating things to the cosmos or introducing that element of space, and that kind of always just gives me comfort. Not only just in the lyrics, but making things sound a little cosmic, or something. It’s something I always play with.
Ez: The other thing I noticed about Life Automatic is that, part of the nature of how it came together is that it’s highly variable. Then I start going through Mu and it’s also quite variable, but it’s a much more – at least surface level – cohesive whole in terms of sound and instrumentation.
You said Mu is a bit more depressed?
Hana: I was feeling heavier about some of the environmental issues of the world, and I guess depressed is not exactly the right world. I was working, but I was heavily introspective and in a very – for lack of a better word – a very spiritual place. I was living incredibly sparsely and meditating a lot and doing a lot of yoga and writing music, and that was it.
It was also an album that was made kind of during a break up, but I started writing it anticipating that the break up was happening, The track “Mono no aware”, which means the transient nature of life, the impermanence, all things coming to an end… I sort of wrote that with [the] foresight that I was gonna end this relationship and had this immense sense of foreboding around that.
Ez: Obviously that’s gonna set the tone for the rest of the album.
Hana: It did feel like an album exploring endings and letting myself sit with that sadness, and then trying to write something that was like a salve for humanity. Like a song that was gonna fix everything *laughs* again, in a naïve sense.
Ez: In titling it Mu, other than representing nothingness among other concepts, do you also feel it’s representing a new beginning after heavy emotions?
Hana: Yeah, definitely.
Ez: I noticed that over both releases there’s bits of electronica, bits that are more rock, more indie, and also a bit of classical. When it comes to writing music, do you sit down and consciously write, or do you start playing and let that flow from you?
Hana: More sit. Often things come from me playing at the piano. Sometimes it’s a chord progression. Usually if it is a chord progression it’s a chord progression with a groove. Sometimes I do write poetry that becomes lyrics. It’s usually one of those two things, although sometimes I have one of each and kind of work them together.
I think I like to use different styles to fit different emotions or fit different bits of a story, and making that cohesive is a challenge. Some criticism that I used to get very early on was that “This sounds like six songs in one”.
Ez: *laughs* Sorry.
Hana: Some of my really early stuff was. It was deliberate smash ups of section changes that made no sense and I thought that was cool. I still think sometimes that can be cool. I like some artists that do that, but as I’m progressing I’m finding ways to thread things together a little more cohesively.
Ez: I can only imagine that those sort of combinations, those changes were very foundational to what you are doing now. Was your background in classical, or was it jazz?
Hana: A bit of both. I studied jazz in university, and I took classical singing lessons throughout high school. I started playing piano when I was four. Some classical stuff, some more pop kind of stuff. Jazz more recently.
Ez: Do you think those two forms of music are what allowed you to be more creative and variable with your approach and how your song ends up at the end?
Hana: Yeah definitely. I feel immensely privileged to have had all this music education, and access to some forms of music and forms of writing and expressing that are really… they’re with me. I know they come out in different ways. It’s integrated, but that being said, I like keeping myself open to new stuff as well. More recently getting really into world music, delving a bit more into that.
I like Indian classical music and some Middle Eastern music for sure, like the desert rock and desert blues. I love African music especially for the rhythms and Latin music for the same reason. In the stuff I’m working on currently, I think rhythmically that is showing a little more.
Ez: Before you said something about how, or at least implied that completing a song is a challenge. What is it about that you find challenging?
Hana: I don’t find completing a song a challenge, currently. I did at one point, when I was younger.
I think I’m really getting a sense of how to write a song from start to finish. I’ll start something and I’ll feel like I’m onto something good, and I can kind of oversee the whole arch of the song, even if I don’t finish it in that setting, I kind of know where it needs to go.
Ez: Would it be fair to say that what’s making it less challenging for you know is that you’ve become more aware of the way you create?
Hana: Awareness is key. I also think using technology in a really helpful way with demoing, and being able to hear an idea from a different perspective rather than just sitting at the piano and playing and writing whilst I’m playing and in it. I’m able to demo things and have that little bit of distance. Almost be like a third party listening to this song and being like “Oh I can hear where this needs to go, I can hear what other part needs to go in here”. Which is also awareness, more awareness of the technology I’m using.
Ez: In taking in more world influences with your newer stuff, is this in a sense a follow up to writing a salve for people on Mu, but perhaps from a different perspective?
Hana: Yes. I have aspirations of using music for healing, and I think the world is desperately in need of that. It’s a really sensitive thing to broach because I’m a privileged person with a Caucasian background. I’ve had a good music education and so I’m in a position to have taken in a lot of different influences. That being said, I don’t want to claim anything as mine or my cultural story when it’s not, so really acknowledging different roots in the music and knowing what they are and being able to talk about them is quite important.
It’s kind of a conscious choice because I would love for my music to play a part in fixing some of the shit that we’ve gotten ourselves into in the world, currently.
Ez: Would you say that the music you’re currently working on, emotion-wise does it take a similar, heavy feel [to Mu], or does it take on something more contemplative?
Hana: There are heavy moments. There’s one song that’s very contemplative. There is a little bit of a mixture in terms of where the emotion sits, but I think the thing that glues it all together is the connection to the natural world. The lyrics are kind of storytelling all about the environment, different aspects and phenomena in the natural environment, and using those as metaphors for transformation that can happen in the self.
Some cosmic stuff again. From the cosmos through nature through the self or the soul. Travels through some heavier parts, but nothing too hectic. I think the heaviness is in the intensity. It’s not like an angry heaviness.
Ez: Do you think that’s brought on by age as well and time to reflect and think things… not to say that you weren’t previously, but there’s kind of a difference between thinking about something at a certain age and possibly thinking about the same or similar at a later age.
Hana: Yeah, and I think as a younger person writing Mu, I was all caught up in my own emotional world and that’s what came out, really. Whereas with this new stuff it’s been a conscious choice to not put heaps of my emotional world into it. I don’t want to sing about myself, so it’s not really doing that.
Ez: We’ll now move to the final round. I don’t know why I said that.
Hana: Round… nine! Or whatever. Twelve? Six? Who knows.
Ez: I did a quick check and I don’t think you’ve released on Art As Catharsis before, at least not as a solo artist, so how did you come about to be getting involved in the fifteen-year anniversary gigs?
Hana: I’ve known about the label for a little while, but I haven’t released anything with Art As Catharsis but I’ve been a part of some of Ben Shannon‘s Conduction Orchestra gigs. I think I’ve done two. There was a feature one that happened at Judith Wright Centre a few months ago. So we’ve crossed paths and he’s booked me for a few things they’ve been doing just to express that he likes the music.
Ez: And you’re coming to the [Brisbane] show with a new band…. V(5)?
Hana: *laughs* yeah.
Ez: It is called 5, it’s not just V.
Hana: I call it V, just verbally. It’s meant to be both 5 and a down arrow.
Ez: Oh, okay! I didn’t think about that. That’s pretty clever.
What do you hope to bring to the show and what do you hope to gain?
Hana: I’m really excited to play to new people for sure, and to play at Crowbar. I haven’t played at the venue since it has been Crowbar. I’ve done many gigs at The Zoo over the years. I’m excited for that. We’ve got a fairly short set, but we’re gonna try and pump out all the songs from the next release, and one from Mu. I’m not gonna have heaps of time to talk but I’m gonna do a little bit of storytelling to thread it all together, and there will be a performance aspect to it as well.
Gain from it… some new people who are interested in the music. I’m also really keen to check out the other acts and just feel that cultivation of music community that happens when you have a showcase event that’s a bit bigger than just one band, so it will be really nice.
Ez: And why do you think labels like Art as Catharsis are able to survive as long as they have despite adverse conditions?
Hana: I think a mixture of the hard work of a solid crew that’s running it, and just the steadfast belief in knowledge that music is something that we need always, regardless of different challenges that get presented. It will always be rewarding if people are coming together to play and share music.
Ez: And just one last question. What does Art as Catharsis mean to you?
Hana: My understanding of the label and the majority of the music that will get presented on the day is, you know, that it’s heavier bands. I think having an output for the initial kind of feelings that bleed into that music being made is hugely important, and for artists to be witnessed in that expression can be life changing. I think it’s really cool, and I love to hear heavy music. We will definitely be the light relief on the day. I think that’s okay.
I just think it’s an awesome thing to have that release and opportunity for people to be heard in that expression.