Ezekiel RodofiliBrian Campeau has been part of many a musical project. To mention a few, he’s in Green Mohair Suits, Cannibal Spiders, and he’s been involved with Josh Pyke’s touring band. However, he’s more known for his solo work, with Brian Campeau Presents Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs currently being his most recent release.
I spoke to Brian about his history, his newish solo album and the upcoming Art As Catharsis fifteen-year anniversary shows in Melbourne and Sydney.
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Ez: Did you leave Canada because you realised you could never be a true Hip fan?
Brian: Tragically Hip? I do like them. I’m not cult following. People get obsessed about that band, but I do like them. They had a really good album called Day for Night. It’s fucken’ brillaint.
Ez: Did you have much Hip in your upbringing?
Brian: Well, Tragically Hip’s kind of like Powderfinger. You can’t escape them, right? So they’re around and everybody’s really proud of them and they played big Canadian Festivals. But yeah, I grew up with them and everybody knew their songs.
Ez: Do you feel they had an impact on your own music?
Brian: Not really. I like Gordon Downie, but in terms of Canadian acts I was more into Ron Sexsmith, Leonard Cohen. There was a band called I Mother Earth. They were pretty good but they didn’t last very long.
There’s Neil Young, obviously. But Ron Sexsmith is a huge one. Still is still a huge influence.
Ez: Were you an active musician when you moved to Australia?
Brian: Yeah. I had a band in high school that recorded stuff and played pubs, clubs ‘n shit. Then after that, when I went to uni I just kept writing hardcore. My parents gifted me an eight-track recorded and I wrote fucken’ hundreds of songs on that thing, so I always kept going with writing music and doing that kind of shit, but I stopped doing gigs.
Before I moved to Australia I started really writing more guitar stuff because I really got into Nick Drake, and most people that do kind of go that way anyway, just finger-picking stuff. I never did the odd tuning, but the finger-picking thing was always significant for me.
Only when I moved to Australia I went I started doing proper gigs of my own stuff, and that kicked off.
Ez: And what type of music were you doing back then, when you came to Australia?
Brian: Finger-picking folky stuff. I mixed it up with a lot of electronic sounds, trying to do weird things, trying to right music that isn’t regular, you know what I mean? Trying to differentiate from the other finger-pickers, because the whole scene for a while was stomp boxes, slide guitars and loop pedals. I had good friends who were doing it, but I didn’t want to. You know, the whole John Butler and Xavier Rudd thing. That never got to me. I found it not great.
I don’t know if you’re a fan. I’m sorry *laughs*
Ez: I remember at the AAC tenth anniversary shows, you basically performed a comedy set.
Brian: That’s what people say but it’s unintentional.
Ez: I also remember you talking about some hardcore breakdowns and you very quickly playing something cheekily. It was to make Lachlan happy.
But you never really veered into more blatantly intense music?
Brian: I was in a band in Sydney for a bit called Jimmy Swouse and the Angry Darts, but that kind of fell apart. We had one album that we made. The band was kinda like a really heavy version of Van Halen, and it was a lot of spitting on each other or peering beers on our head while we’re doing tapping solos. Lachlan actually really liked that band. A lot of people did, but the band couldn’t get along *laughs* and our singer joined the navy.
Ez: And your heart was more in your solo stuff.
Brian: I guess so. I’ve done a lot of things. I play in a bluegrass band as well, Green Mohair Suits.
I love metal. I’m a fucken’ huge metal-head, but I’ve never made- well actually, that’s not completely true. There is an album on The Internet of me just doing metal stuff, but it’s a joke and I don’t really advertise it.
Ez: Regarding the length of time that your solo releases span, do you think that speaks to a certain way that you write?
Brian: No. After I finish an album, I feel depleted a little bit ’cause I’ve put so much effort into one thing, and they’re always conceptual in some way. There’s always a concept behind everything that I release except for the B-side thing. So I think it kinda takes time to come up with a concept and build on it, and before I come up with a concept I’m writing little things here and there, songs that might or might not work.
Ez: Your recent album is called Brian Campeau Presents Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs. Is the concept here you presenting… Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs? *laughs*
Brian: Sort of. Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs is a joke, ’cause Jo Dellin is yodelling spelt the German way, although I think they have only one L (jodeln). I really got into yodelling and I wanted to do a more country album. I thought Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs sounded like a country band name, and the bone spurs is a reference to Donald Trump’s excuse for not going to war.
Anyway, it’s me playing more of a tribute to Ween a little bit as well. I don’t know if you listen to Ween much, but just their ability to do any style comfortably, even though that too is kind of tongue-in-cheek.
But yeah, I just kind of wanted to do something that had the Bob Dylan’s Self Portrait influence and a lot of yodelling. Not just country, but Swiss yodelling as well, which is more intricate.
There’s a lot of yodelling on Jo Dellin… and I know that throws people off. While I was making it, I told Lachlan that nobody’s gonna buy this *laughs* but I’m proud the album.
We sent it to radio stations and I got one airplay from somebody who’s on the album, and the rest got ignored ’cause nobody wants to receive a press release that says “Hey, let’s play some yodelling music on RRR or FBi” *laughs*
Ez: Maybe that speaks to an inability to handle yodelling.
Brian: *laughs* maybe. It was a hard sell, but it’s a shame because I’m trying to put yodelling into my kind of music, and I think it worked. I am really happy with the album, but people don’t really care about yodelling and I’m not some sexy 25 year-old. That album doesn’t sound like it has an edge the way that The Chats do.
Ez: As a quick side note, have you noticed how it seems that everything comes back to either Ween or Faith no More?
Brian: *laughs* I was never into Faith no More. I like Mike Patton and I don’t mind the band, but that is funny.
The drummer from Mr. Bungle is the drummer on Jo Dellin and the Bone Spurs.
I met Danny Heifetz because Josh Pyke asked myself, Danny, and Mick Weaver who died a few years ago, to be his touring band. The three of us hadn’t really hung out before. I think I’d met Mick once or twice, and Danny never. For one of the rehearsals, I showed up wearing a Dillinger Escape Plan shirt and Danny leaned over and went “Man, those guys were a hard act to follow. That’s when I quit” and I was like “Ah right, you’re the Bungle guy”. We just got along really well and we still catch up here and there, but he doesn’t play very much music anymore.
Ez: Is he mostly retired?
Brian: I think he got sick of playing the drums, live especially.
His drum kit is an old junket and he has this really kind of simple way of playing, but it’s not the part anybody else would play, and he just fucken’ nails it. He’s just such a fucking good drummer. It’s real surprising the way he does it because it’s so simple and you’re like “Fuck me, that’s spot on what the song needed”
For the first proper song on Jo Dellin, “These Waves”, it takes him… anybody else would’ve played a really stock-standard part. It takes Danny maybe up to like the third minute before he hits the snare, and it’s like “Oh, that’s what it needed. Oh shit, okay. Brillaint”.
Ez: So how did you work out how to make yodelling work for you as a tool for expression?
Brian: I’ve always been into yodelling, but when I was a teenager, a friend of mine’s dad who I got along with really well, he introduced me to Hank Williams and I was like “Fuck, this is brilliant”. There was that country yodelling, like “Yodel-Ay-EEE-Oooo”, that whole shit. Then Jimmy Rodgers who I got into when I was about twenty, and that was revelatory, and I’ve always kept up with that. Really enjoy it.
Maybe about five years ago I started delving into Swiss yodelling which is way more intricate. There’s a video of Franzl Lang doing really intricate yodelling around an Oktoberfest. It’s unbelievable stuff. And it sounds goofy and it’s always laughed at and mocked, but I found it really interesting that it could be so fucking technically difficult, and the more I delved, the more I found yodelling from Switzerland and Germany that sounded so close to classical music. Then I started realising that there’s a whole other aspect to it that should be taken seriously because the technique is amazing and it can be used well.
Ez: So then doing a country yodelling album may have always made sense but only presented itself recently.
Brian: Maybe. Maybe just ’cause I put my head down and started composing songs with it and I’d always felt like I wasn’t trained enough. If you sit and practise something long enough you’re gonna get something out of it.
I’m never gonna compare myself to those Swiss and German people, or Mary Schneider, the queen of Australian yodelling. I reached out to her, and I was like “Hey, I just wanted some tips on yodelling and all that”. She said “Look, it’s easy, you can do it or you can’t. She got me to do it over the phone *laughs* and she goes “No you’re fine. Sounds like you got it. Just keep working at it, and try and make sure you’re not always hitting the fifth intervals. Try doing different things like sideways yodelling, stuff like that.” So I just kept at it for a few years and… yeah. Now I’ve got that useless skill *laughs*
Ez: Well it’s not useless if you somehow combine it with nu-metal or drone.
Brian: True, yeah. I could do some Korn coverage with some yodelling. Instead of that whole “BAH DI BOH DJA”, just yodel instead *laughs*
Ez: I think it would really go great with Sunn O))). Maybe you should contact them and do an album called Yodel O))).
Brian: *laughs* Yeah why not? See if I can ruin their career too.
Ez: *laughs*
How do you write your music? Do you do it by jamming?
Brian: I do, but not with a band. By myself. There’s a lot of playing the guitar for hours until something comes out and I’m like “Oh, I can develop on that”. I try and play around with that idea for a while, like months. Then I’ll see if there’s a melody that fits, that works with it, and then see if I can put lyrics over the top which is the hardest part. Lyrics are the definite last thing.
Ez: You don’t find them a strong suit of yours?
Brian: Some people can write lyrics and it’s like “Baby baby, you broke my heart”. Everybody’s got feelings ‘n shit, but I don’t wanna just spout things that somebody has said already.I like the philosophical approach and go “What are things we can talk about?” I like to talk about things like how to deal with anger. How to deal with the existential dread *laughs* Things like that and I find that way more important to talk about.
Ez: Do you feel then that your music takes a perhaps more positive and optimistic approach than it could?
Brian: Sometimes. I did an album where the concept was to try and be as positive as possible, both in the music and the lyrics. That was Old Dog, New Tricks which came out in 2018. That was intentionally positive, just trying to see the good in everything, see why it’s good. Since then it’s not necessarily positive; It’s just introspective.
Ez: So you wouldn’t say that Jo Dellin… is a violent, raging howl against the ills of the world.
Brian: No, but there is a breakup song on there, and it is just a straight-up mid-seventies kinda country sound. There’s a song on there called “Tall Poppy” and it’s about the issue of cutting the tall poppy. It’s sort of a question on education and how we treat people. I think the tall poppy needs to be taken care of in every aspect. The person with the best ideas shouldn’t be cut down.
Here’s an example: petrol companies are awful and ideas have already come out to make cars that run on things like solar power. The ideas are out there, but they’ve been squashed because that would mean a loss to petrol companies, and I think it’s now happening a little bit with electric vehicles.
It’s the same with new ideas and education. There are kids with good ideas, but they feel like they’re shut down in class.
And even music, there’s some fucken’ cool music out there. When I first came to Australia, JJJ was way more interesting and diverse. I still try to listen, but now it’s kind of taken this really stock-standard sound and repetition, and I think playing new kinds of music would be beneficial. Playing weird artists on popular stations, especially on a government-funded station would be beneficial to everyone.
Ez: You’re gonna be playing at the Art As Catharsis fifteen-year anniversary shows in Melbourne and Sydney.
Brian: That’s correct.
Ez: Are you gonna be presenting mainly Jo Dellin… or will you try and do a veritable mix?
Brian: I’m not bringing my electric to Sydney. I’m using an acoustic which changes things a little bit, and the banjo player from Green Mohair Suits will jump on. I’ve got a drummer and a bass player, so it’ll be a big mix of the shit that I’ve done.
Ez: Are you gonna be mixing it up for both shows?
Brian: I haven’t decided that. I’ll probably play electric in Melbourne, and it’s a completely different band.
Ez: Let me ask you a terrible question. Are you excited?
Brian: Of course I am.
I love all the acts that are on the bill and they’re so fucken’ diverse. In Melbourne, I’m playing with Diploid who are just a screaming fucken’ metal fest, and it’s brutal music. I hope we’re not next to each other. Oh, maybe it’ll be good if we are.
Ez: Maybe you can just start yodelling with them.
Brian: There will be yodelling at both gigs *laughs*
Ez: I’m genuinely looking forward to it because you made a good point about how it’s never really taken seriously but it’s something that requires a lot of skill and talent, so I’m convinced.
Brian: It’s really fucken’ hard to do, pardon my language. It takes a lot of really doing something over and over again just to hit the note properly. Like, the flick in the throat, a lot of people can’t do that.
Ez: And I imagine that performing it live makes it harder, ’cause obviously you do warmups and practising but you only have one take, so to speak. But if you’re experienced enough, you probably don’t think about it that way.
Brian: No I don’t, but I understand what you’re saying. I agree with you, but I don’t tend to focus on that. Otherwise I’d be stressing myself out. And who needs that? Who needs more stress?
Ez: Well you know, maybe it’ll lead to selling many records if you release a really stressed out album.
Brian: Fuck *laughs*
Ez: I think you have one of, if not the first release on Art As Catharsis.
Brian: I came later. Don’t let the dates fool you.
Lachlan already had the label and I was on Intertia. They’ve got a huge repertoire but because they’re a lot bigger, they didn’t really care about releasing my music and pushing it because they had artists that they’d much prefer to push than some fucken’ weird mix of electronic and folk and random sounds. So I kinda went “You know what? I’d rather be on a label where a guy actually gives a shit about the sound and the music”, and Lachlan was that. He truly believes in every project that he puts on the label.
Ez: How did you discover Art As Catharsis?
Brian: I knew Lachlan for a while ’cause we were playing a lot of the same gigs. Even though I was doing more of the folky stuff, I was friends with Lachlan and Tim Brown from Ebolie and Serious Beak. We were all friends and I’d known about the label, and it just seemed natural to go with him, and I still feel that way. It’s a real boutique label and he fucken’ cares about what he’s doing.
Ez: Other than that and the time investment, why do you think Art As Catharsis has managed to keep going all these years?
Brian: I think Lachlan puts so much work in it to keep it going, and I know it tired him out how much he does, not just from that, but his own job as well is pretty demanding. But the artists who are on there respect the fact that he does that and that he cares. I think they know that Lachlan gives a shit about the music that they’re releasing, and are thankful for it.
Ez: One last question, and maybe you’ll end up repeating yourself here, but what does Art As Catharsis mean to you?
Brian: It means to me that there’s a label who believes truly in the music that they’re putting out rather than going for what they know will sell. And I know that Lachlan wants every album to sell really well and become a huge international hit, but he’s doing it because he believes in the art of music.